We spoke with Britax's Advanced Technology Program Manager, Pankaj Amesa, as well as Jeanna Rimmer, a communications specialist at the company, prior to receiving our review unit of the new Frontier, which we reviewed earlier today. Our candid phone call covered issues ranging from the chemicals in their seats to a disclosure of just how committed Britax is to the idea of extended harnessing.
ZRecs: We were most interested in the Frontier's design to keep children harnessed later than other seats. But your marketing materials seems to focus on side-impact protection features. Why this emphasis?
Pankaj Amesar: To put it in perspective, among children from birth to twelve years old, one in four crashes are side impact crashes, and the fatality rates are much higher than in frontal impact crashes. In frontal impact there's not much in the way of intruding objects that come into direct contact with the occupant, but in side impact crashes there is not much between the occupant and the object, so the door deforms and hits the occupant, which causes large [numbers of] fatalities. The stiff structure of the Frontier acts as a barrier between objects and the occupant. It's also important to manage the energy, and we lined the structure with the energy-absorbing components. This takes energy away from the occupant. These are factors we closely design for.
There has been a lot of research done that suggests that a five-point harness is the safest protection that can be had. There have been calls by researchers to keep kids in five-point harness as long as possible. The Regent kept kids in a five-point harness up to 80 pounds. There are not many products that go 80 pounds harnessed. Britax believes in keeping kids in a five-point harness as long as possible for safety reasons.
Jeanna Rimmer: Because there is no side impact standard in the States, we are taking what they are using in Europe - more of a consumer test - to test to. We also test to global standards, in Europe they have been doing side impact testing for many years. Europe has been working for a decade on side impact testing standards. A consumer group [NPACS] has picked up the standard as a benchmark standard to evaluate standards.
ZRecs: Clearly, extended harnessing is a big part of that.
Jeanna: We as a company want to be known for best practices. One of those is keeping a child in a five-point harness as long as possible. Keeping them rear-facing as long as possible, then forward facing as long as possible. We had the first 65-pound convertible seat on the market, and now we are advancing our product to 80 pounds. If we can make it so it's a combination harness to booster, we can encourage that five-point harness longer than parents might otherwise use it.
Typically by the time a child is two, two and a half, a family will have another child and pass that seat down. This gives them the opportunity to move that child into the Frontier, a combination booster, keeping the child in a five-point harness hopefully up to 80 lbs. If they decide to take them out at five, six, or seven, they’ll still have the side-impact protection, because the back and head wings are retained in booster mode.
We're trying to lead the way to move away from a basic booster seat. With the Frontier, all you're removing is the harness. Even as a booster, you can use the LATCH system for stability.
ZRecs: Do you think that eventually this will all be part of the law? LATCH connections, side impact requirements?
Pankaj: NHTSA is looking at developing a new standard for side-impact protection. It will take its due course of time and we don’t have any information on that. As far as forcing LATCH on a booster, that's probably not on the horizon simply because having a LATCH booster the only thing it does for you is keep it from not being a projectile when it's not being used. If you put a booster in there and do not secure it and nobody’s using it, it could be a flying projectile. If you are using a booster, you need to engage the seatbelt and lock it so it will not become a projectile. The benefits of the LATCH for when a child is wearing a belt are still to be quantified.
ZRecs: We're seeing a growing awareness and interest among our readers in car seat materials - both plastics, which can off-gas, and fabrics, which often contain high levels of brominated flame retardants. Where does Britax stand on the phasing out of chemicals of concern to parents?
Pankaj: Federal standards are by far the biggest ones that capture most of it, but there are subtle regulatory requirements at state levels such as chemical requirements in your products, phthalate requirements - California just passed a law that said none of the components should have phthalates in it.
Jeanna: Over the last year we have been working with suppliers and vendors to make sure that the flame retardants that we are required to use are at safe levels and are not anything that would cause concern. There are a lot of reports that are going on right now and there is not a lot of scientific evidence that this amount will cause this kind of problem.
ZRecs: But the issue of BPA has shown that consumer demand and even possible regulation can advance faster than achieving a complete scientific consensus.
Jeanna: Absolutely. As manufacturers, even though there may not be hard scientific proof, we want to do things that make parents comfortable. It's an issue that has just come to fruition over the last 12 to 18 months.
We are moving towards new chemical-type standards to follow with our suppliers. One area of concern is the amount of bromine in flame retardants. We are moving towards standards like OEKO-TEX that is widely accepted.
A lot of the fabrics we use have inherent flame-retardancy - the nylon-type fabrics, in our microfibers the plush or "flop" type fabric, some of them have inherent flame-retardancy to them.
ZRecs: While I have you, Pankaj, I'd like to get you on the record about aftermarket products - seat belt tighteners, neck pillows, and all that. We have come out very strongly on ZRecs against those, and it's sometimes very frustrating to see them being sold despite all that is known about their potential harm.
Pankaj: We do not advise using any aftermarket products. Anything aftermarket, we can't say how it's going to affect that product in a crash test environment.
ZRecs: Give me more. Some parents think that's just legalese for car seat manufacturers protecting themselves from liability. You're an engineer. What's your engineer's perspective?
Pankaj: Well, for example, if you’re using seat belt tighteners, you could overtighten, you could damage the seat belt, and you could make the seat installation too stiff and it would not absorb the impact of a crash. Pillows could alter the initial positioning of the kid, and could cause the harnesses to be looser than they might be. They have their own set of issues.
ZRecs: What is the future of traditional booster seats at Britax? I don’t want to put you on the spot and ask you to tell me if you’re discontinuing either of your standalone booster seats, but I'm curious - your other booster products don't offer as much side impact protection, which now seems to be a major focus for you.
Jeanna: Oh, but we are discontinuing them. We have two booster products, the Parkway, which you cannot remove the back, and the Monarch booster which has a removable back but it does have the deep wings when the back is attached. We are discontinuing both of these products.
The Parkway you can still see at retail but it is no longer in production. The Monarch will be phased out of production by June or July. You'll probably still see it in retail until the end of the year but we will no longer be distributing it from our Charlotte, North Carolina headquarters after the summer is over.
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Britax: A ZRecs Interview
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car seats,
safety and health
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10 comments:
This is great to see. It's interesting timing for me, just last night I watched one of TED talks podcasts by Steven Levitt (a very smart guy) and he spoke about the car seat industry and showed actual footage of impact tests which pretty clearly showed that a safety belt did a better job after about age 3. I'd love to see Britax or a major manufacturer address the points he brought up.
I'm just at the point of moving from an infant seat with my son to a larger convertible seat and we're most likely to go with the Britax Boulevard, but the points Mr. Levitt made will stay in my head.
(ITunes --> Podcasts --> TED talks)
Regards-
Children's Hospital of Philadelphia disputed the Freakonomics data soon after Levitt published his 'study'.
"Philadelphia --A new study has found that children who were using child restraints were 28 percent less likely to be killed in a crash than children who were wearing seat belts alone. Published today in The Archives of Pediatric and Adolescent Medicine, the research from the Center for Injury Research and Prevention at The Children's Hospital of Philadelphia studied results for nearly 9,000 children aged two through six involved in serious motor vehicle crashes."
www.chop.edu/carseat
Julie
Child Passsenger Safety Technician (and mom of little ones...please, does a three year old sit perfectly still in a seatbelt like the Freakonomics dummies? I don't think so! Not to mention, they didn't do side impact testing to show those little bodies and heads slamming violently into doors/windows/oncoming SUV bumpers... go search youtube for crash test videos, you'll see what I mean :) )
I just erased a much longer reply (one explanation had to spawn several more). :) Thank you Julie for the feedback, I totally appreciate it. I think the most telling thing in what you wrote is probably about a 3 year old sitting still. Even if one disputes other things, you can't dispute that. And obviously, the most important thing to me is keeping my child safe.
Glad to help! Heck my 10 yo can barely sit properly in his booster seat!
Julie
www.car-seat.org
I'm all for safety for my kid, but how to keep an older kid restrained in a 5 point entertained on longer rides? He can't reach the window button so has to ask you to do it for him (ok maybe not so bad). He can't reach toys that have fallen on the seat beside him or maybe a new one on the seat or inthe seat back pocket, so you have to pull over, reach back and retrieve it. And I, for one, go numb if sitting in one position too long. If a 3 point belt and a booster seat can't do the job, why are we not all in 5 pointers? Changing the standard seems like the safety industry preying on our fears so that we keep having to buy more stuff. At some point I think we have to recognize that life is a dangerous place. My soapbox, I guess.
@Anonymous: Funny, as I read your comment I could imagine similar words being spoken by a member of an earlier generation faced with new seatbelt laws decades ago.
The reason is the difference between the nature of children's and adults' bodies, and what seat belts are designed to do. Read our review of the seat - it explains the key differences.
yes, I saw it and understand it. But also men are built differently than women, Short differently than tall, elderly different than 40 year olds. The hysteria seems to focus on the kids. And traffic speeds are higher than when I was a kid running around in a harness with a tether in my parent's VW squareback. I'm not advocating that we go to back to that, but the logic here leads me to think we should bubble wrap the kids or strap them into bed so they can't get out (the stinkers would still find away to get injured though). There's a cost/quality of life degradation line somewhere and I wonder if we are approaching the crossing point. I'd rather the money gets spent going after the root problem, ie build seatbelts/cars correctly in the first place and get people off cell phones, text messages, newspapers, and other distractions while driving, instead of pricey bandaids on top of bandaids.
I should add that I appreciate the work you do here, especially the advocacy for removing BPA from plastic. Thanks.
I JUST purchased a britax monarch for my 5 year old and now I'm concerned after reading this interview. I wish I had known britax was discontinuing this model. Why are they still allowing it to be sold if they are concerned about it's overall safety? Now I'm wondering if I should even use it...this is all getting very confusing.
To the comment about why not everyone in 5 pts? It acutally would be safer for every person in a vehicle to be rear facing and in a 5 (or 6 - with a double sub strap)harness.
Racecars have 5 point harnesses for that reasons. Rear facing just will not happen for the driver and I cant see it happening for passnagers either. But, really, in the event of a collsion (front or rear) the rear facing position is better.
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